We’re officially into the 12 Weeks of Self-Esteem of Self-Esteem Torment which runs from mid-November until just after Valentine’s Day when the fog wears off. The stress that people experience at this time of year about family coupled with the great number of people who agree to family arrangements with gritted teeth and who brace themselves for lots of drama, points to a great deal of acting from a sense of obligation. I empathise- my family are crackerjacks and decided to have an Alexis Colby and Krystle Carrington style showdown on Christmas Day last year, furs flying and all -but all of this family angst that so many of us go through got me thinking: Doesn’t all of this obligation that we pile ourselves up with cause us to come from a place of being forced and imposed upon? Doesn’t it say a lot about the way in which we see ourselves and our family when we say yes not because we want to, but because we feel that we have no choice and are fearing reprisals?
An obligation is where we feel morally or legally bound to do something.
It can also be that we experience something that causes us to feel a debt of gratitude, and of course debt is linked to owing which in itself creates an obligation to make repayments. The more obligations that we imagine ourselves to have (or that are imposed upon us), is the more that it begins to feel like a loan shark situation where no matter what we repay, the debt increases and leaves us feeling imprisoned and so duty bound to feel resentful.
Faux obligations are requests or expectations styled as obligations when they’re not. They’re duties and rules that aren’t actual rules that are treated as legitimate obligations, so they’re things we’re ‘supposed’ to do regardless of whether we want to or not.
We’re most likely to feel our strongest sense of obligation with family and this is regardless of whether we had a great, good, OK, bad, terrible or non-existent relationship with them. I can attest that in the past, I’ve felt loaded with obligations by family that I’d hardly spent time around in more than twenty years! Sometimes it’s them regarding and treating us as being in a ‘child role’ and sometimes it’s us feeling caught between a rock and a hard place where we in theory know that we’re an adult but we don’t want to ruffle feathers and invite criticism, conflict, or even rejection. We want to be ‘liked’ even though if we don’t have good boundaries, we won’t like us (or them for that matter…).
Most of the things that we feel obliged to do, family or not, are not legal obligations, so that means that when we feel obliged, we put ourselves in a bind because we feel as if the ‘house rules’ (read: family rules or even rules we’ve assumed) are principles about the “right way” to conduct ourselves.
These are a mix rules, norms and expectations that we feel fit our image of family as well as messages that have been directly communicated or inferred about what we are obliged to be and do. It becomes a question of us being right or wrong as opposed to whether we want to do something and whether what is being asked of or expected of us is fair and reasonable, or indeed even right or our responsibility.
What we feel obliged to do with non-family, very often feeds back to rules and ideas about life that have been fed to us about how we ‘should’ be that we’ve interpreted as pointers about how to be full stop, hence why so many of us have familial relationships on repeat with friends, coworkers and romantic partners – trying to right the wrongs of the past, looking for validation and trying to meet unmet needs results in setting us up for painful patterns.
Here’s the thing: Sure, we definitely have some obligations in life but everything feels and in effect expresses itself a lot better when we come from a place of desire and authenticity. It’s less teenager or even little kid dragging their feet and more about choice and owning our own and letting others own theirs.
What we want to do is often very different from what we feel obliged to do and if there’s too big a difference and the reasons why we feel so obliged are based on an overactive guilt thyroid and feeling ‘less than’, it’s a recipe for pain.
- The person who wants to go and see their parents once a week but feels obliged to go there three times, has a whole burdensome thought process attached to those extra visits.
- The person who wants to go for Thanksgiving dinner but feels obliged to stay for a few days even though staying more than one day always results in drama, ends up having a few stressful days instead of one good one that acknowledges that the family typically has only enough good tidings credit to last a day.
One of the biggest reasons why we don’t acknowledge where we are loading us down with faux obligations is that we fear being “selfish” but unfortunately if we don’t start taking responsibility for our well-being and also for our side of the street in the relationship, resentment will put a dent in it anyway.
And we’re not exactly being selfless when we do things out of a sense of duty because we’re not doing it wholeheartedly if duty hasn’t given way to, Well I want to do it anyway and I’ll enjoy giving without an expectation of what I should get back. We also forget at times that most people feel uncomfortable being around somebody who they sense doesn’t really want to be there or who has issues that they’re not voicing but that are showing through tension and even passive aggression.
What we also need to admit when we saddle ourselves up with these faux obligations is that on some level, we feel as if the person in question has not met what we feel are their obligations to us, hence we hope to create a tipping point and when they continue to disappoint us and/or we are not acknowledged and validated in the way that we hope to be, we feel short-changed.
Each time we act primarily out of obligation, we’re acting like a kid who still doesn’t have choices.
Family (and anyone else who seems to be unclear about our boundaries), will not know that we are different to how they perceive us or what the boundary lines are, if we don’t speak up or step up, which we can still do with compassion and respect.
It’s not easy to draw a line with family who have come to expect automatic compliance but the sky isn’t going to fall down either. Often the amount of drama that we anticipate is far less than the actuality plus we forget that when we do step up for ourselves instead of making us small, that we feel better about us which makes for a better relationship.
Some tips…
- Get honest about what you want versus what you feel obliged to do. This gives you an opening to bring awareness into the equation. Reflect and find the middle ground – a solution you can live with.
- Be honest about your motivations. I talk about this in episode one of The Baggage Reclaim Sessions but in a nutshell, locate the hidden agenda so that you don’t enter into anything from a place of trying to ‘get’ something. If you’re looking for reward or trying to avoid something, or trying to cultivate an image or even trying to ‘make’ them change, revise your motivations.
- Acceptance of your family does not mean agreeing with everything they do. It’s more live and let live from a place of reality.
- Approach everything from a place of being a grown-up. Yes you are somebody’s child but you are not a child. Respect doesn’t mean regression. If you put you in a child role, invariably you end up feeling like one and being treated like one.
- If you’re not going to do something (e.g. visit, have dinner etc), stop dragging it out and let them know. Don’t leave it until the last minute as aside from annoying the hell out of them, you’re also likely to backtrack and go because you feel bad about leaving it to the wire, which will make you feel worse. Be proactive rather than waiting for the awkward conversation and dreading the call or message – via phone or email seem to be the most effective but choose the appropriate channel for the relationship.
- Easy on the fluff. The bigger the explanation, the more it sounds like justifying, excuses or even lying. Start with the nuts and bolts and keep it lean. “I’m not going to be able to make it for Thanksgiving / Christmas / whatever it is this year”. Don’t assume that the silence afterwards needs to be filled with fluff or even backtracking. Hold fire. Most of the readers who’ve I’ve helped to make arrangements over the last few weeks did not need to get into a big explanation.
- Any follow-on explanations need to be brief.
- Be compassionate rather than guilty. “I understand that this is a surprise…” or “I understand you’re disappointed…” but you don’t need to fix their feelings; you can’t. I’m not saying that their reaction will be rational but if they get upset or feel disappointed, this is OK. Us humans aren’t fond of change but it is needed. Give it time.
- Say what you will do (if appropriate). “I won’t be there on ______ but I’ll see you on X date for lunch/dinner/fill in the blanks.”
- Keep it real. If like me you’ve pretty much spent every holiday with your family, it’s madness to beat you up over opting out this time!
- It’s OK to not want to spend every occasion, holiday with family. Your needs matter too. I love my family but they love a big ‘ole dramatic Christmas and I want to chill out and enjoy Em and the kids. I’m not going to ask them to change but my version of things is OK too.
Add to favorites
Hello Natalie. I usually don’t do write random comments but im not sure what to do. Me and my girlfriend recently broke up and it turns out we both admittingly really didn’t want to break up. It was a big mis-comunication and we both said yes because we thought thats what the other wanted. 5 days pasted and we finally talked. She deals with depression and had to move on quickly but she was unaware that i didn’t want to break up with her. Knowing this new informatiom she said that she would think about us and give me an answer in a couple months but as of right now she was leaning more to the staying apart side of things. I said 2 months is a long time to just keep me waiting and she did text me earlier today and said that she still is a bit conflicted. She is sorry for keeping me waiting. And that she is still thinking that she wants to break up but ” straight up misses me sometimes.” she wanted to meet in a couple weeks after the holidays. This is hard because we both were pretty serious and even talking about marriage. Should i fight for her? Give her space? Or come to the conclusion that its over and end this for good?
Hi Brandon, I agree that two months is quite a while to keep you hanging. It does indeed sound as if there was a miscommunication but the same thing is happening post-breakup – each of you saying things without considering the wider context and checking in with your feelings. She does not sound as if she is in a position to make a decision and really needs to focus on sorting her head out. What she cannot do is toy with you even if she says it’s not what she intended and keep you in her back pocket. She needs her energies to confront her issues that have contributed to depression and you need to do for the two of you what she isn’t able to do. I would accept the relationship as being over and begin the grieving process because you can start putting things into perspective. Let her know that you love and care about her but that you love and care about you too and that it’s not fair to either of you to string each other along and that you will respect her wishes. You are a person with feelings too. Focus on taking care of you, let her have her space and tell her that if and when she’s in a better place, that you can speak then but that for now, it’s best that you both step back. I’m sorry that you’re going through this.
This is how I felt after years of getting together out of obligation. I didn’t want to be with people who acted like they were tolerating me instead of enjoying me. I could not get them to say what the problem was so I chose to opt out of more and more “family” events because they weren’t acting like family. It felt weird at first and I wanted to compensate and placate them in some way.But after a few years I thought “If they don’t care what I think or feel why the hell am I worried about their feelings.”
I hear you on this Nikki. Many families struggle to talk about feelings due to fear of confrontation and also just being quite comfortable in their routine. You can’t force them but you can acknowledge where it means that you need to step back. Family are also the people you choose for yourself so surround yourself with likeminded, loving folk.
I have a hard time saying no to my parents when they want me to join them for a holiday because I’m older but don’t have a family of my own. No kids, no spouse or significant other. So when I would try to say no, it’s not like I can say that I have other obligations. I don’t, but sometimes I really DO NOT want to spend that time with parents, every holiday, every year. My siblings have an “out” because of their families. It’s tough. My mom is the ultimate martyr and grills me on what else I’m doing if I try to opt out. I’d love to hear more about how to cope with this kind of thing.
The belief that you’re operating with is, “I don’t have kids so I’m obliged to spend every holiday with my parents because my life is less than that of my siblings”. So now you’ve obliged you to spend every holiday with them plus your mother uses guilting you to activate your conscience which leads to resentment. If you mother wants you to visit, there is no need to deliberately make you feel like a bad person or ‘bad daughter’ in order to get her way. You will also find that because you are vulnerable to your mother’s guilting, even if you had a family, you would then feel obliged to spend the holiday with them because, Oh, the grandkids. I’ve spent 35/36 Christmases with my mother of my 38 years. One was 14 years ago and the other was 5 years ago. This year I’ve put my foot down and we actually don’t have firm plans yet but I am tired of being guilted and kids or not, we are all entitled to take some time out for ourselves. “Mom, I can’t join you for the holidays this year because I’m going to be away.” If she asks you where, have a place at hand (or book yourself somewhere nice). Whatever age you are, use that number of years – “I know that you are used to me coming for the holidays but I won’t be this time”. More objections, “I understand that you are disappointed but this is the first time that I’ve made different plans and I’ve spent, 38 (or whatever it is) holidays with you.” More objections. Example, “Me not coming for the holidays doesn’t mean that I don’t care / that I’m a bad daughter / whatever – I want to do something different this year.” If she lays on the martyr malarkey, “Mom, if you want me to do something, you don’t need to guilt me and to try to make me feel bad about myself. When you say ____________ and ____________, that is you trying to guilt me. I value our relationship and each time you do this, it creates resentment and that is not the way that I want to feel about you or our relationship.” Still more upset. “Like I said mom, I have made other plans and I’m sorry that you feel this way. I will see you ___________ (the next time post holidays or if you’re seeing them before, that date)” and then leave her to it. You are the soft target. Let your mom guilt your siblings for a change.
Nat, you are so awesome. I’m taking this to heart and will print it out and practice for Christmas! thank you.
Natalie, I have been reading your’re blog for a couple of years now. Wanted to tell you how greatful I am to you for all you’re insight. You have helped me through some dark times. At present, I am trying to detach from another love avoidant and to stop the cycle. It is exhausting but I am striving for healthier relationships with the opposite sex and of course with myself.
I wanted to wish everyone on this website a happy love filled Thanksgiving!
Much love, Belinda
Jsk, “…I’m older but I don’t have a family of my own.” In other words, you don’t have a couple of meat shields you can push out in front of you to say NO to mommy, right?! But yet you’re an adult and she reduces you to being a child by “grilling” you and playing martyr. How disrespectful and manipulative is that?
*Anyone who refuses to take “NO” for an answer is trying to control you.* That includes mommy. Please re-read that sentence several times. Love is not about controlling or manipulating someone else regardless of their relationship to you. There is NO DNA exemption for being a Boundary Stomping Biatch.
There are a number of techniques you can use for people who are overbearing, obnoxious demanding an “explanation” (none of which will be acceptable to the interrogator of course) so chose a course of action and STICK WITH IT. This is the first step. Admitting you don’t want to go for what ever reason is good enough and so are you. Imagine that. It doesn’t make you a BAAADDD daughter. It makes you a true adult, an autonomous human being in your own right, not a card board cut out in Mommy’s Hallmark Perfect Family Mileau. What’s she gonna do? Ground you? Put you in Time Out? Sulk? Too bad. That’s not your problem. And frankly, it’s a lot of ACT on her part. She’s not hurt, she’s not sorry, she’s pissed and ready to pull out her Tall Toddler Act and spew tantrum all over you because she’s not getting her way and because she knows what works to get you to back down. What is she-the emotional equivelant of NetFlicks? She’ll have to step up and manage her OWN feelings-of Entitlement to You on Demand. She’s bullying the hell out of you. No. Hail to the NO!
Chose your method of communication: Texting or writing to say “No thank you, I will not be coming for the holidays” may be your best bet initially. Prepare to have her blow up your phone. Do not answer if the time she chooses to start her counter-campaign to “pack your bags, you’re goin’ on a guilt trip” phone crap isn’t a good time for you to respond. You can turn off your phone, block her, have her messages auto-sent so she stuffs your up your inbox, VM etc. until it’s a convenient time for you to engage in IRL Boundaries-In-Action. Keep it short and concise. Write down exactly what you will repeat to her, “NO Mom, I am not coming for the Holidays.” “NO, my decision is not up for discussion/negotiation and if you continue to badger me I will end this conversation now” (insert whining, wheedling, cajoling, guilting etc. as soon as you say No) and if she continues after the third time you’ve broken recorded your response, HANG UP THE PHONE. Turn it off. Breathe. Pat self on back. You did it. NOW you are Officially a “Groan-Up.” Same deal with any of the Flying Monkeys she will unleash to do her bidding. Do not JADE. Ever. And NEVER, EVER back down once you’ve said “No.” If you’re not in it to win it, give it up. Boundaries are not semi-permeable membranes. They are concrete reinforced bunkers that protect YOU.
Clearly you’ve come from a hinky background since you are afraid to say “No,” are manipulated by Guilt or Obligation and allow her to continue to reduce you to a child instead of respecting you as an adult.<This is your's to remediate. Nobody can do this for you. The only way to do it IS to do it. It's gonna feel uncomfortable as hell in the beginning when you start setting and enforcing Boundaries and acting like an adult, not a child. She doesn't have to like it. You don't need her approval-you know you're never gonna get it anyway no matter how much Hoop Jumping you do. So accept that. She doesn't define you. She has no more power OVER you than you've given her. Your self-respect will grow by leaps and bounds once you refuse to participate in this on-going "Entitled CB Mommy" crap.
Boundaries start at home. If you can't or won't implement them with family, you're setting yourself up for every Predator out there. I think some counseling with someone who speaks fluent co-dependency and/or Family Dynamics is in order stat. Get an appt. ASAP. There's a battle to be waged and if this is your Hill To Die On gather your resources and support pro-actively. This isn't all about the Holidays by a long shot: It's about decades of being trained to be an Emotional Caretaker to a Domestic Terrorist. If what I suspect is going on here in a nutshell, this is the summary: When you're a child you're treated like an adult and when you're an adult you're treated like a child. Uh uh. NO.
TW
Great response. I’ve been there!!
“Meat shields” — Love it!!!
And if you’re the sort of person that has a hard time saying no, then don’t give a lot of explanations. Just say no, and give one explanation and do not expand on it. Because since you felt a bit guilty and don’t feel like you deserve boundaries, you will allow yourself to be bullied. So keep it simple. Your parent will see a possibility of losing control and will get devious very devious. So be ready for a lot of emotional blackmail, and be prepared for it so that when you hear it, you tell yourself ‘ok deep breath, this is just emotional blackmail’ and you don’t react.
I once turned down this type of bullying when I was feeling really strong. It was friends of the family, very over-bearing. And I totally turned the tables – I was over-bearing back. I was so effusive in how lovely they are, and how lovely their home, and how lovely their food, and their children, and how happy I am, and how they are so much like family that I don’t feel bad leaving early. I went on and on for ten minutes. I mean she really tried because it was like a power trip to get me to stay longer. Its an interesting thing to try where you don’t tell the person any real reason, just that they’re wonderful and amazing and you have to go.
Dear God, this response made me giggle out of being able to relate, and the ridiculousness of it all! My mom definitely lays on the guilt, and I am thankful that I am finally starting to recognize it. However, I also am able to see that a lot of it is her projecting her own stuff and that I don’t need to take ownership of it. I have committed to only act out of a place of love, and not out of obligation. I think we can come from a place of love when dealing with the dyfunction, but not until we heal and have healthier boundaries for ourselves.
P.S. Check out Nat’s boundary workshop… it’s great!
Really helpful on so many levels. Thank you.
I’ve been trying to figure out what JADE stands for. “Do not JADE. Ever.” Justify and defend ever?
Justify
Argue
Defend
Explain
Those are classic Hooks people who refuse to take “No” for an answer will use to engage you in an effort to wear you down. And once they hear “No,” they will pull out every one of these thick and fast to do an end-run around your Boundary.
TW
It’s funny for the last few years I’ve been telling my adult daughter not to feel obligated to come home every year. I didn’t want her to come out of obligation, I wanted her to come because she wanted to come. I often felt like she was doing me this big favor by coming. This year I’m not sure I want her to come. I know for sure that I do not want her to stay with me. I feel like a horrible mother. I know I’m not, but it feels terrible. Currently taking a break from talking with her because she’s controlling and abusive and doesn’t want to hear me when I try and talk to her about it. It’s been almost two weeks and the space has been great so far – I can think. I do feel pressure because Christmas is not far away and I just got the space I needed. Don’t want to keep her in the dark about what my plans are for Christmas (not having her stay in my home) if she does come, but I don’t feel ready to speak with her yet. She just stopped calling/texting everyday the other day. Feel conflicted about how/when I “should” reach out to her. Think the space will do us both good. I’m in it, so it’s harder to see objectively.
I recently looked up a couple of bill of rights online, including a parents bill of rights, it was helpful in seeing what’s obligation and what’s not. As a parent I find the line even fuzzier.
Veracity: I haven’t read any of your specific comments on your daughter [as in specific incidents of she said she said]. I can see that there is a slight mind-game dynamic on both sides. Just write to her and tell her that you want to be alone this christmas. In some ways she will take it as being ‘punished’ and that is that. By not answering her phone calls for that long, or even texting and saying ‘don’t call me’, its extending the passive aggressive interactions between you.
I had a moment with my mum where she said I was aggressive and that she was going to leave the house etc. I have also had to leave the house once really late at night to get away from her. Its a measure of how messed up our interactions can be that I feel like I will have to physically remove myself or I will lose my mind.
You could blame your daughter if you want, but there is a distinct dynamic here. You had mentioned last week that she is like your ex husband and your father – I assume people you aren’t fond of? It didn’t seem complimentary to your daughter – I’ve been compared to my dad also, the person my family isn’t too fond of. Isn’t that just peachy?! Funnily enough, he was the only one in the family that didn’t transfer his problems on to me…dad was the only person that just …left me alone – some affection, some care, some fun, but mostly hands-off. I needed that. I didn’t need ‘love, mom style’ which consisted of overbearing martyrdom no-boundaries inconsistent acting-out madness together with over-mothering over-care, demands for gratitude etc etc. It was a mess. I learnt no-boundaries from her.
We have a functional relationship now on the whole and its because I started fixing my mind. I still slip up. So does she. She started adjusting her behavior at least 5 years AFTER I started therapy and started adjusting mine. Thats how long it took for her to start getting the message that I now had some boundaries. Its been a hard road with my mum. A lot of what you wrote could have been me and my mum. I was raised on the knee of narcissism, martyrdom, crazy-making, and judgment. Its a hard path. If your daughter is all that you say, send a clear message and stick to it. But also consider how you’ve changed over time and what you were when you brought her up – she might be like her father or your father, but you’re an equal part of her life, and the dynamic is something thats been worked out and perfected over both your lives.
tldr: it takes two to tango to the tune of passive aggression.
^^^**This. A thousand times THIS.**^^^
Additionally, good on ya Suki. Mad crazy respect to you and kudos to your mom as well. I can only imagine the challenging road that was tread to get to where you are today. It takes a whole lot of tenacity, concerted effort and honesty to break that Chain of Pain-and you’re doing it. The benefits to you and your family are immeasurable.
FWIW, there’s a little old widow broad who’s clapping and cheering wildly for you, for your mom, for your family. Wow! This outcome is as beautiful as it is rare-and so are you. Best wishes for the Holidays.
TW
@tundra woman; thanks for that. I have tears in my eyes reading it. I’m a bit emotional today. You’re right, it takes a lot of honesty. Plain talk. Its hard, plain talk is really hard. Not passive aggressive manipulative talk, but actual plain speaking.
I think our family has actually figured out a few things especially given the pain of our history. We do have each others back in a fundamental way though we’ve also turned on each other and tried to ground each other into the dust of righteousness. Go figure.
Suki,
I’ve debated whether or not to respond and I will feel like I betrayed myself if I don’t.
Sounds like you’re blaming me for how she’s choosing to behave now. I’ve taken ownership of my part in creating this and I am facing/dealing with who she is. I am requiring her to accept responsibility for her actions instead of allowing her to unload the responsibility on me (blame me). I hung up on her after many, many attempts to get her to hear me instead of attempting to intimidate/dominate/blame me. I don’t think it requires (nor am I obligated to provide) an explanation as to why I’m not answering the phone. I also don’t think it is passive aggression. The fact that she didn’t want to accept/respect that limit just affirms my position even more. She feels entitled to me, my time, my property, whatever she wants. She has no problem using emotional abuse, threats, intimidation, minimizing, denying, and blame to get what she wants. Of course I’m always wrong. And, BTW, that’s her my father and ex husband’s MO as well.
Your mother is not me/I am not your mother.
My daughter is not you.
My daughter’s father is not your father.
I put my daughter in therapy when she was young because I knew I was handicapped and wanted her to have tools I did not have. I was also in therapy.
She understands boundaries, she was taught them by the therapist. She does not respect limits.
“If your daughter is all that you say” WTH? No, I’m making shit up. That’s really insulting.
Am I doing it perfectly? (whatever that is), probably not. I am doing it the best way I know how and I was attempting to get support in doing so.
I’m sticking up for and protecting me. I’m not to blame for how she chooses to behave as an adult.
Yk, it seems we all have some unexamined underlying beliefs about Boundaries. So let’s look at them, OK? Initially when we learn about Boundaries we construct a nice little white picket fence [because it goes well with the landscape, right? 😉 ] and we’re quite proud of that Boundary fence. Before we know it, they drive a front end loader though it completely destroying it, ie, It didn’t work. Disappointing, but we learn from that so next we construct a Boundary of concrete reinforced blast wall. That ought to work, right? A little time goes by, we think we’ve solved that problem just in time for them to lob artillery OVER our Boundary blast wall. Once again, they found a way that is even more “expensive” and destructive to permeate our Boundary. Scary and depressing but-not one to be a “quitter,” we try again and this time we build a wall that’s higher, thicker and blast prof and also construct an underground bunker. NOW we’ll be safe in our Boundary, right? Wait…what’s that sound? Here they come in a fighter bomber dropping Bunker Buster bombs all OVER our Boundaries and we are now horribly injured.
Did you fail?
The most common and fallacious unexamined default thinking about Boundaries is if they don’t work, *we’re doing something wrong.* All the “Experts” said or implied Boundaries ALWAYS work. The reality is, no you didn’t fail and no, they don’t “always work.” You’re dealing with someone who views Boundaries as Targets of Opportunity and a challenge to their “resourcefulness” to coerce you to their will *no matter WHAT THE COST TO YOU OR THEM.*<This is the mindset of a Suicide Bomber. You can't change them but you can get out of the way: Self-Preservation is our most primal right as living beings. No one else can tell you when you've done "enough." Guilt is a relentless, self-lacerating taskmaster that will indeed destroy us in it's execution unless…we learn when to walk away. This is really the challenge here.
I will tell you the same thing I have told innumerable parents regarding their Adult Children when dropping the rope is realistically the only option left: When the cost of pain and heartache outweighs your guilt and you have no other option/strategy left to "try," you'll be ready to walk away and start the Grieving Process in earnest. It's no longer about "success" or "failure." It's about self-preservation and personal humility. From U2: "If you wanna kiss the sky better learn how to kneel-on your knees now.." None of this is easy. The pain is indescribable, the cost incalculable.
You didn't "fail." You can do everything right and still have it turn out all wrong. So much of life is really beyond our control and none of us escape this world unscathed. In many ways it 's a very lonely journey. Relinquishing our most treasured illusions, our dreams, hopes and aspirations doesn't mean we'll never have any of these again-we will. In time. And in time, they will be informed by hard fought and hard won realistic Lessons in Life. Grief is the price we pay for having loved and been blinded by that same love because-
Sometimes it's truly not about us at all.
I wish nothing more for you than for you to find a place of personal Peace. May it start with this Holiday Season.
TW
You hear me and understand. I’ll save this and look at it when I need strength and reassurance. Thank you so much, TW.
Veracity, you might not see this. I didn’t want to doubt your word. I don’t doubt it. I said ‘if your daughter is’ not because I doubt you – but to say IF YOU think she is all this, THEN you should cut her off. Its an entire sentence, an if-then statement. I don’t doubt that your daughter is aggressive, takes you for granted and all of that. I accept your word for what it is. Its the interpretation that I think could have multiple layers, we see things from our own perspective and our history. If she is in fact really just a ‘taker’, you should cut her off. [note again, I say ‘if she is’ not because I doubt you, but because only you know if her behavior is such that she is only a taker].
I guess I meant that there are problematic dynamics and they are just that – dynamics. Even if she is in the wrong completely, there are still dynamics between the two of you. Perhaps you are enabling. Perhaps you are ‘requiring her to take responsibility’ – this will be endlessly frustrating to you if she never takes responsibility. That is a dynamic – you require something, she refuses, you keep requiring, she keeps refusing. You might be right to require, but her continued refusal indicates that you don’t want to let go of your needs viz her. Boundaries are between people, they are more an exchange border than a one-way fence.
I also heard from you a lot of frustration which is totally understandable; there also seemed to be some justifying to yourself which sounded to me like you were trying too hard. e.g. that you looked up a parents bill of rights etc. That seems to suggest that you either don’t know what the boundaries are and need confirmation or that you want to use this information to justify the boundaries to your daughter. Its those kind of comments that made me feel that you are also not sure of your own position. So your daughter who clearly needs strong boundaries is responding to that.
I totally understand that you are not my mother, nor am I your daughter. I guess I wrote my comment from my place of frustration with my mum and that came through. I should have written it with more compassion for what you feel and an attempt to explain to you my opinion from a relationship that sounds similar to what you have with your daughter.
So I have no way to know if you are any of the love-mom-style that I wrote about. I would say that — my mum would say some of the things you say. I don’t know if this is just mum talk, and all types of mum would use it, or if its a particular stye of parenting.
Regardless, you and your daughter have a dynamic. It is both of you that create it. And it is causing you pain – it doesn’t not appear that she will change, so how will you change yourself to deal with this? She will not accept responsibility and definitely not in the way you might want. So whats the way out?
Hello Nat,
I had an argument with one of my aunts because she made a not very nice comment about my mother (my parents are separated). She didn´t apologize.
The issue is that my grandma (98 years) lives with my aunt and I want to visit her for Christmas but it´s going to be very embarrassing meeting my aunt in front of all my family. Any suggestion of how to approach this situation? We haven´t talked to each other since the event happened (3 months ago).
Thanks in advance and congrats for your blog!
Possibilities: write your aunt and invite her for coffee beforehand. So you guys can get your interaction out of the way first. I assume you don’t want to apologize? Do you want to be on speaking terms? You could just say I want to see grandma and I’m worried it might make you uncomfortable after that fight we had. Would you like to get coffee so we can be back to being friends?
second possibility: show up, pretend nothing happened. Depends how much you like this aunt and if you feel comfortable pulling this off. You could also give her a heads up; ‘we had a fight, I want to see grandma AND YOU, I’ll be there, I want to get past it so I’m going to behave like we’re fine’.
third possibility: ask a neutral party to tell your aunt that you’ll be there and you’re looking forward to seeing her. Or invite a neutral party to coffee, and tell them to ask your aunt to come. The three of you have coffee before meeting the family.
[I’m drawing on a moment I had with a friend – a big blowup fight. She was throwing a party and asked a mutual friend to invite me. I decided to go but first asked her out to coffee so we could get any uncomfortable talk out of the way. We pretended things were normal. Life went on.]
“What we also need to admit when we saddle ourselves up with these faux obligations is that on some level, we feel as if the person in question has not met what we feel are their obligations to us, hence we hope to create a tipping point and when they continue to disappoint us and/or we are not acknowledged and validated in the way that we hope to be, we feel short-changed.”
Excellent food for thought. Hell, this whole post is right on time.
Thanksgiving was awesome as usual. I slept most of the day, did laundry, and ate the leftovers my grandmother brought me. Didn’t see a single family member save for my sweet grandparents and doggy. I’m sure Christmas will be no less splendid.
Oh and I have zero social media so I have no clue what anyone else did. xx
Happy Holidays
What do you do when the guilt is too much to say no? How do you keep a strong sense of self esteem and worth when it gets battered left right and centre? When you are fighting all the time eventually it becomes exhausting and you just can’t hold on any more. How do you stop the inevitable personal decline that comes from letting go of the tug of war rope?
alice,
This is not how it’s supposed to be. It sounds as though possibly you could be in a domestic violence situation. Natalie’s resources have been life savers for me but I also needed different sources, too. I love the Duluth model. It’s very concise so you can better pinpoint what’s going on. Take care xx.
http://www.theduluthmodel.org
specifically the wheels are good to look at. http://www.theduluthmodel.org/training/wheels.html
Excellent link, Jennifer.
Alice, if it’s your parents/relatives who are causing this, know that as an adult, you do have the ability to make changes to these relationships that are clearly damaging to you. It might not seem that way to you now, but it’s true. It’s impossible to offer you any more guidance without some details about your situation.